Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

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MR2DI4
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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by MR2DI4 » 29/12/16 2:15

Fitted the biggest battery I could and a full size spare front wheel and the problem is sorted.

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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by BALDYMONSTER » 13/07/17 19:30

I've had three MR2's.

The first rev1 N/A definatley had a very willy front end at anything over motorway speeds.

The second rev2 turbo suffered from the same issues but not as much.

My current UK N/A rev 2 seems to be the best as far as not being as bad in this area but then I have dropped it 40 mm which is probably nearer 45 mm accounting for spring sag as I fitted the lowering springs 2 years ago.

It's an issue for sure to lesser and greater degrees dependant on model and what you have done or fitted to the car to help prevent this. But it's never been a deal breaker.

Hopefully I'm the next 6 months I'll have a front splitter, side skirts and massive arches with steam roller sized rubber to go with the SC 2GR, that should make the fecker stick to the black stuff a bit better for sure.

And I'm almost definitely going to be looking at cutting a front vent in the bumper to create extra downforce through a vented bonnet.
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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by pbmr2 » 13/07/17 21:16

This old topic back again :D

just re-read, also been looking into drag and lift reduction over the last 4/5 months.

Starting at the front.
Splitter, they really do work, get/make one.

Rad vented only though bonnet, big impact. but it's a huge mod that many will not like, lets leave this one out for the moment.

Stock speed flaps help a bit but are at a poor angle and a little narrow. wider, deeper and sloping outward would be much beter.

Venting front arches at the rear, from the top or both. a modest gurney flap on the leading edge of the arch helps a lot. also a leading edge at the rear of the arch to move air in a similar way to the front splitter, except just moving one way not both.

Corner weighting the car properly will also help the front end a huge amount, get the alignment people to do this for you.


The other thing noted though my own testing is that spring rates of aftermarket springs ruin the front end. The 20 year old stock springs were doing alright, stable front end even at silly speeds. Stick some lowering springs on it and suddenly the front wants to bob and float around a lot more. Not all the time but there were more situations that could promote it. All came down to the spring rate of the front springs being too high.

Got another set of springs to play with once back on the road again, will give them a whirl and see if that cures the issue. If not then will get some custom springs made.


Also during the current build/swap every part is being inspected for wreight and position, with a view to bring as much wight into the center of the chassis and within the axels. Reduction of the weight on the overhangs will help the handling but at the front could aid float. Still the best way to reduce weight is to remove as much as possible and then add some ballast back for balance if needed.

The turbo conversion adds 41kg at the rear axel area alone, with weight saving or moving parts the total weight gain will only be 10.7kg at this point. A lighter exhaust, stripped boot, no aerial and some other weight saving the rear 'overhang' aera is seeing a 14kg reduction, thus aiding moving the bias forward.
If the spare wheel was put back the front axel area would be 2.2kg lighter that it started, the front overhang is 2.6kg lighter also.

So the whole car is 21.4kg lighter than it started out, with a weight bias shift of towards the front by 6.3kg. even though most of the weigh has been added at the rear axel area.
Cake and eating (I hope)

It's more than just one thing that makes a car do anything handling wise.
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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by gavsdavs » 16/07/17 17:04

pbmr2 wrote:
13/07/17 21:16
This old topic back again :D

just re-read, also been looking into drag and lift reduction over the last 4/5 months.

Starting at the front.
Splitter, they really do work, get/make one.

Rad vented only though bonnet, big impact. but it's a huge mod that many will not like, lets leave this one out for the moment.

Stock speed flaps help a bit but are at a poor angle and a little narrow. wider, deeper and sloping outward would be much beter.

Venting front arches at the rear, from the top or both. a modest gurney flap on the leading edge of the arch helps a lot. also a leading edge at the rear of the arch to move air in a similar way to the front splitter, except just moving one way not both.

Corner weighting the car properly will also help the front end a huge amount, get the alignment people to do this for you.


The other thing noted though my own testing is that spring rates of aftermarket springs ruin the front end. The 20 year old stock springs were doing alright, stable front end even at silly speeds. Stick some lowering springs on it and suddenly the front wants to bob and float around a lot more. Not all the time but there were more situations that could promote it. All came down to the spring rate of the front springs being too high.

Got another set of springs to play with once back on the road again, will give them a whirl and see if that cures the issue. If not then will get some custom springs made.


Also during the current build/swap every part is being inspected for wreight and position, with a view to bring as much wight into the center of the chassis and within the axels. Reduction of the weight on the overhangs will help the handling but at the front could aid float. Still the best way to reduce weight is to remove as much as possible and then add some ballast back for balance if needed.

The turbo conversion adds 41kg at the rear axel area alone, with weight saving or moving parts the total weight gain will only be 10.7kg at this point. A lighter exhaust, stripped boot, no aerial and some other weight saving the rear 'overhang' aera is seeing a 14kg reduction, thus aiding moving the bias forward.
If the spare wheel was put back the front axel area would be 2.2kg lighter that it started, the front overhang is 2.6kg lighter also.

So the whole car is 21.4kg lighter than it started out, with a weight bias shift of towards the front by 6.3kg. even though most of the weigh has been added at the rear axel area.
Cake and eating (I hope)

It's more than just one thing that makes a car do anything handling wise.
It's funny that you recommend a whole load of mods which my car doesn't have but it doesn't, and has never had a floaty front end.

For example, I took mine to Wheels in motion and asked them to corner weight it - they laughed at me and suggested whether they should do it with a full, or empty washer water reservoir. They suggested it's only really worthwhile on cars with very specific weight configuration, not general purpose car.

I agree there's a whole bunch of placebo effect going on in this subject :)

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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by pbmr2 » 16/07/17 19:40

Indeed my car never suffered from it until the new springs. As the dampers are adjustable it was possible to rule them out but the spring can't be dynamically changed.
I think you said your car was on stock suspension? as was mine before the float.

If a car didn't suffer the float, why would someone attempt to fix it? That's quite funny :D
A stock setup, though good, is possible to improve on wouldn't you agree?

Granted corner weighting comes from the motorsport world where balance is king. Does that mean that a modded road car has no change in balance what so ever? Or wasn't perfectly setup in the first place? Or the mods caused a shift in the balance.

Have had a numebr of cars CW'd and the balance has been much better after.
The name is a bit of a misnomer as a fair amount of the weighting is done by adjusting the suspension, with only bone stock adjustments available on most road cars it's much harder to make much change without adding loads of weights and shims all over the chassis.

Took one of our cars to Wheels In Motion and they didn't have the kit to corner weight a car, so didn't use them. Have used Balance Motorsport a few times. Only Mr2 we had done was a mk2 rev1 way back in '04. Helped our driver win his sprint class and went on to use the car for hill climbs too. A fully road legal car, though quite modded.

If the car is always being driven well within the handling limit, then yeah there is prob zero point in doing any handling mods what so ever.
"Stop buying parts to solve the problem, findout what's wrong first!"

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Re: Front end lift. Camber and sideskirts.

Post by gavsdavs » 19/07/17 20:29

Pb are you coming to the essex thing this weekend ?
We have to be able to squabble about this in person :)

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