The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

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TrevMk2

Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by TrevMk2 »

Nice one gazza1286, great idea, would you do the same at the front pipes? like the idea of no connections behind the heat shields, what do you think of using P clamps to hold the new joints in place?
Cheers
Trev
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gazza1286
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Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by gazza1286 »

That is exactly what I was thinking - Great picture! Hadn't considered 'P' Clamps (never even heard of then!!)

My concern at the moment is obtaining the 'correct' hose (i.e. brand/manufacturer). It needs to be flexible enough to bend but rigid enough not to kink. There are some relatively tight bends to cope with - especially at the front. In fact, I cant see that any hose would be able to bend enough to fit directly onto the heater system without stressing the fittings.

I think therefore that using the same hose joiners onto the existing rubber pipes at the front would be a good idea as well.
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TrevMk2

Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by TrevMk2 »

Hello everyone,
Just thought I'd post my experience of the Pipes from Hell sorry about some of the pic's (blurry) it was a bit tight under there! this is in my garage using one 2 ton trolly jack and two 6 ton axle stands and two 2 ton axle stands and as many tools as I could get my hands on, one thing before I start the Toyota Red is based on ethylene glycol R22: Harmful if swallowed, R36: Irritating to eyes, so you need to be careful.
More info here on ethylene glycol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

With the heat shield removed I've cut the pipes with a CRT40 Rotary Tool Kit from Machine Mart, this did cut around most of the pipe but I could not cut all the way round because of the fire wall so I rocked the pipe from side to side and it finally broke off, I did go through quite a few disks with the CRT40 they seem very easy to brake. I've cut the right hand side one (O/S pipe) here so the new pipe has room to take the same path as original.
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Moved this pipe work to ease fitting the hose behind it.
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The bracket that holds the two pipes before it goes behind the heat shield has one of the pipes braised to it. I've cut this off so that I can put two P clips to hold the new hoses.
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Cut down bracket in place.
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Old hoses with connectors.
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I've used 10ft of hose for each side just incase my route took more than I thought. I then feed the hose though and down, taking the same routes as the originals, and instead of going over the fuel tank these went down under it. After the right hand (O/S) hose was feed though, the pipe work was bolted back up.
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The left hand side (N/S) hose route past the back of the fuel tank. (looking up from under the car.)
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The Right hand side (O/S) hose route past the back of the fuel tank. (looking up from under the car.)
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After pushing the hoses all the way though, I connected the hoses to the connectors and tightened all four clamps up. Using two P clips I tried to use the original bolt to secure it all together, this was too fiddley and I decided to us a longer bolt which goes through the original bolt on the bracket from the other side, this made it easier to hook the two P clips on, I then bolted them up keeping the look of the original set-up.
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Placed the heat shield just to check everything fits.
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Left hand side (N/S) hose went over the radiator pipe (at the rear of the fuel tank) this is the tighter fit because of the two pipes, but I think it gives the better route.
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Right hand side (O/S) hose went over the radiator pipe (at the rear of the fuel tank) this is the easier one to fit as it just goes round just right.
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Feeding the right hand side (O/S) hose over the hand brake bracket and over the fuel tank supports.
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Feeding the Left hand side (N/S) hose over the hand brake bracket and over the fuel tank supports.
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I've used these pipe supports from B&Q to stop the hose from chafing and to stop the hose from touching the radiator pipes. I've also lightly tie-rapped the hoses back using some holes in the the fuel tank supports.
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Just behind the battery the original pipes.
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Original pipes disconnected.
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Hoses feed up in front of the fuel tank and up into the front boot compartment.
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Both hoses go up in front of the tank, I've used P clips to stop chafing and to connect the left hand side (N/S) to the tank.
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Connectors fitted to original front hoses and new hoses cut to size, all four clamps then tightened up.
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There is still the old coolant in the old pipes, so I came up with a simple pump which is a soup dispenser pump, I've put a long clear screen washer tube on to the end.
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Put this tube down the old pipe and start pumping the end into a suitable container. This just saves the old fluid splashing around when you're accelerating and braking.
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Bleed the coolant system, checked for any leeks (none found up to now) replaced heat shield, and underside plastic protectors which fit fine no buldging.
Last edited by TrevMk2 on 13/05/08 10:17, edited 4 times in total.
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Howlin_Mad
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The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by Howlin_Mad »

Someone sticky this :th:

Top job fella!

Just as a side note - you can actually do a quicker mod that bypasses the bracket that causes the weeping by cutting it off before the pipes disappear along the fuel tank and you only have to replace the 6" or so with coolant pipe behind the heatshield. It can be done with the engine and fuel tank in situ although you may need a ramp to do it due to the angle needed to do it but only an hours work.

From what i'm told it's 99% of the time going to be the engine vibrations causing the bracket to split the pipe so only that section needs replacing.

HM
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TubbyTwo

The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by TubbyTwo »

good stuff mate thats pretty much how i did mine but never did a write up!

consider it "Sticky'ed" lol
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gazza1286
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Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by gazza1286 »

Excellent write-up.

Got all the parts myself. Doing the job over the weekend.

It's been said that eventually ALL mr2s will require this fix. Fractures in these pipes are certainly going to be a factor in the failure of many a MR2 Head gasket.

The repair looks so straight-forward it should be done as a preventative measure rather than waiting for the inevitable!!

Well done.

Update:

Job now done. Similars to TrevMk2 but other may wish to consider:

As Trev said, the best route for the nearside hose is to squeeze between the brake pipes and the radiator rigid. (as shown in the photos). It is VERY tight. This can be solved.

I removed the bolt securing the rigid to the frame at this point. Extra space was gained by using a nut as a spacer behind the bracket, thus dropping that side by 3/8" (1cm). Re-securing the rigid with a slightly longer bolt my be required. Even after dropping it there is still a gap between the rigid and the undershields when refitted.

I used 4 Alloy connectors. I bought them direct from autoperformance as opposed to the ebay link. See:

http://www.venairsport.co.uk/index.php?cPath=48

Also I used Hylomar Universal Jointing Compound (Halfords)

Same as:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hylomar-Universal ... m153.l1262

Leaks best avoided.
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dellams
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The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by dellams »

Yeah your not alone mate, I got the same problem but is only a very slight leak so not much of a problem at the moment!
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Skoly
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The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by Skoly »

I Have just noticed the same leak at the top end just above the fuel tank.

Where is the best place to get the 19mm ID reinforced hose from? (Any motor factors?)
How much is the said hose?

As someone mentioned above you can just replace 6 inches or so to by pass the leaking part. Is there any mileage in doing this? Or would it be better to by pass the whole thing?

Thanks.
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TrevMk2

Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by TrevMk2 »

Nice one gazza1286, when I'm next under that area I do the same, I'll be happier with that extra room around the hose.

Hi Skoly, my hose is Quinton Hazell 19.1mm bought for a local motor factors, hope this helps!

It's great to have a forum to bounce ideas around I'd have just connected the hoses to the original pipes but thanks to gazza1286 with the hose connectors I'm a lot happier with the result. :th:
Cheers
Trev
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gazza1286
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Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by gazza1286 »

Skoly

I had great difficulty sourcing it locally (so I gave up!). I bought the hose from the same supplier as the hose joiners above. Best to ring them to confirm that you need ONE piece of 7metres and not 7 pieces of 1metre!!!! The online calculation for the postage was incorrect - phoning them reduced this. BTW Fitting only one metre to the offending braket wouldn't be wise IMO. you would have a hidden joint onto a 'smooth' brass pipe. Also it is very difficult to reach. When doin my job I saw some tell-tail dried water marks elsewhere on the pipe-work. So best to do it all.
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dervbas

Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by dervbas »

This is a job needing doing on my rev1 turbo. This was the source of my overheating engine problems and loss of water on a frequent basis!

Now I'm either going to just bypass the offending joint as HowlinMad suggests, or re-do the whole piping system as illustrated on this topic. I have access to proper service ramps/lifts.
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dellams
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The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by dellams »

Have you guys got any pics/diagarms or more info on how to just bypass the bracket causing the problem? Is the bracket the thing circled on the very 1st pic of this thread behind the heat shield?

What does this involve exactly? Cutting the pipe from the enginebay behind the heat shield? Then what? Replace with rubber hose and jubilee clips to attach?

I had trouble sourcing pipes too, in the end I was forced to buy 6 1m sections since they said they stopped doing it on a roll now, so also had to buy 6 connectors!

Where did you guys get the longer hose from? The biggest they have on the link above is 4m and works our more expensive than the 6x 1m pieces I got for about £5.50 a pop. Im guessing the 6 pieces I have will still be fine, just a bit more hassle, but not too much work to join them together since I have the connectors designed for them. Thats a plan B anyway if I cant simply bypass the 6"'s causing the problem!

Cheers guys.
94 Rev3 Turbo GT-S TBAR
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dellams
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Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by dellams »

gazza1286 wrote:I've a Rev 3 and I noticed the slightest weeping from that very spot. (no coolant being lost as I sealed it up with epoxy resin (temparary fix). I'm planning to do the heater hose by-pass over the next month or so. Your 'photo diary' will therefore be very useful.

My thoughts are that cable ties will invaluable to ensure that the hose doesn't sag/kink.

BTW is hose available in 18mm ID? Most people seem to use 19mm ID.
Gazza,

Where did you get your eproxy resin from and how much?

I was thinking of using:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Loctite-Super-Ste ... 0274174258

Problem is how did you apply this if its on top of the fuel tank? Unless it is that braket in the enginebay as seen in the first pic circled?

I was also thinking about maybe using some radweld, would that work as a temp fix?

Thats what im after for now since my car is near enough undrivable at the moment since its got so bad and overheating all the time. I havent got the time to finish the repair work for a week or so and need the car for work, etc. How long does the temp fix last? A month or so im guessing? Maybe a few weeks?

Cheers.
94 Rev3 Turbo GT-S TBAR
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gazza1286
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Re: The pipes from Hell! you're not kidding!!!

Post by gazza1286 »

The epoxy resin I used was from Halfords. Some stuff I'd had lying around for ages. It was 'two-part' but had the conistency of 'old' plasticene which could be kneeded in my hands. That stuff from ebay looks too soft for that. I recall is was sold as 'petrol tank' repairer or something similar. I've used it sucessfully over the years in a variety of applications.

I can't say how successful it was I'm afraid. The leak was little more than a 'pin-"censored"'. I only had it in place for a short while. And yes. it was on that end bracket shown in the photo.

I wouldn't recommend usig rad-weld. If you do a search on the forums there are loads of threads warning against its use.

I would just joint the two engine-bay hoses together and by-pass the heater curcuit until you get a chance to do the job properly. A plastic 'hose-joiner' should be easy to locate from B&Q as a temporary fix.

Good luck
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