3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

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3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

Did anyone knows real information regarding 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating?

Thanks


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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by benckj »

Rev 1&2= 450
Rev3= 540
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

benckj wrote: 11/04/21 2:39 Rev 1&2= 450
Rev3= 540
OK thanks :th: Where did you get that numbers from?
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by MR2DI4 »

Think its the other way around.

Rev 1&2 = 440cc
Rev 3 = 550cc

In any case if you were going to change them you would probably get whatever you intended to use flow tested and matched if you were serious.

Plenty of online calculators that will give you a ballpark figure on Hp from the injector size.

https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

Ultimately its the 440cc injectors that are the limitation you hit in the Rev 1& 2, regardless of ECU and Turbo.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

MR2DI4 wrote: 11/04/21 17:40 Think its the other way around.

Rev 1&2 = 440cc
Rev 3 = 550cc

In any case if you were going to change them you would probably get whatever you intended to use flow tested and matched if you were serious.

Plenty of online calculators that will give you a ballpark figure on Hp from the injector size.

https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

Ultimately its the 440cc injectors that are the limitation you hit in the Rev 1& 2, regardless of ECU and Turbo.
Rev1&Rev2 not even closer

Actually I've done some test today using pressure gauge,home made injector switch..etc

So totally I've tested today 12 injectors from Rev1 and Rev2 as per manual using stock fuel rail Rev1 and Rev2

All 12 injectors made 100ml of fuel per 15 seconds and 400ml per 1 minute.

So all Rev1&Rev2 is rated to 400cc max and they are Not 440cc

Rev3 4 injectors in Rev3 fuel rail made 140ml per 15 seconds and 560ml per minute= 560cc injector.

Interestingly..I've done another test using stock Rev1&Rev2 fuel rail but with Rev3 560cc injectors. It made 120ml per 15 seconds and 480ml per minute which=480cc injector that's due to smaller feed diametr in fuel rail compare to Rev3 fuel rail.

Fuel pressure was 40 to 41 psi with at the rail..by bridging terminals on diagnostic socket.

Also used 3sge Rev3 N/A Fuel pressure regulator on Rev1&Rev2 wich made fuel pressure rise from 40 41psi to 46psi.

Then I've fitted Rev1&Rev2 injectors in Rev3 fuel rail and it was still producing only 100ml per 15 second and 400ml per minute.

p.s All test was done by repeating for 3 times and pretty much bang on. So conclusion is I've burst another Myth..every day is a school day. :laughing
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Last edited by Voivod on 11/04/21 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

3sge Rev3 N/A Fuel pressure regulator on Rev1&Rev2 wich made fuel pressure rise from 40 41psi to 46psi.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by SonicSW20 »

Acceptable range as per engine manual for Gen2:
Image
Your results are to the low end of the acceptable range, and your sample size is not large enough to definitively state they are "400cc max".

Acceptable range as per engine manual for Gen3:
Image
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by MR2DI4 »

Flow is pretty dependent on pressure. At peak Boost of 17psi I have 59psi of fuel pressure.

Fuel pressure is therefore like 43-44psi so they are likely to get to 440cc when new.

Unless you have a timer wired in and I would still run it for 1 minute or your not going to get accurate results.

That measurement container is not exactly accurate is it, great for measuring flour for a cake tho.

Going to be close enough not to matter. Hardly a Lab setup there so I wouldn't go as far as saying you have proven Toyota wrong.

Pressure gauges are notoriously inaccurate, you need something like the Fluke process meter to do it properly, in fact you need a dedicated setup to get anything close to accurate. Ran through all my analogue gauges when I had access to one they can be out by 3psi no problem

Looks like fun tho and the results at least verify the injector is working.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by SonicSW20 »

Yep, the setup OP used is good enough to check they are flowing within range and relatively equally.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

SonicSW20 wrote: 11/04/21 22:10 Acceptable range as per engine manual for Gen2:
Image
Your results are to the low end of the acceptable range, and your sample size is not large enough to definitively state they are "400cc max".

Acceptable range as per engine manual for Gen3:
Image

I've got plenty of manuals and familiar with acceptable range. Acceptable range?? Maybe is acceptable for Toyota to run 10psi However when you increasing the power and you think that you're running 440cc injectors which in fact only 400cc then bad things could happens.

Total of 12 injectors and no any of them was 110 at least per 15 seconds or 440 per minute. You would at least expect couple to show on higher numbers.

Rev3 on other side is more then 540cc or 550cc as per test.

p.s If you find any larger enough sample size that would be great. There are some sellers state the same regarding this injector which runs 400cc at 3bar :laughing
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by SonicSW20 »

You do you mate.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by MR2DI4 »

At the end of the day I have never even stripped and rebuilt the head on mine, let alone tested the injectors.

Its not really relevant as over the years I have learned that regular maintenance and decent oils means you don't need to rip the engine to bits in the first place.

If your going to move away from stock boost you need an AFR gauge end of story or you will blow the engine.

Using the stock narrow band O2 sensor on mine but ideally you would simply fit a wideband to the downpipe.

The MR2 is really old tech now but its fun to play with and learn about stuff and its relatively flexible with what you can do in terms of modifications because its all still pretty crude in terms of engine control from the ECU.

A characteristic of a 20 plus year old injector would be a decrease in flow. Essentially contaminants block it and I'm also pretty sure they would have a filter in them so it all leads to reduced flow over time. Obviously its an advantage to be able to flow test a set of new injectors and match them all to the same flow rate.

The set-up in mine is really crude, essentially I can adjust the fuel pressure to alter the tune. You simply get a combination of pressure and boost that gives you like 12:1 or richer under full boost. The exhaust pipe is black inside and not grey so its probably still running on the richer side.

No idea what the injectors are flowing but it's running sweet. I would be really surprised if a modern performance Turbo did not run a fuel pressure sensor running straight into the ECU. You pretty much need to know the second the fuel pressure goes out of Spec. Better faster control loops on a modern car to monitor whats going on with multiple O2 sensors.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Flow is pretty dependent on pressure. At peak Boost of 17psi I have 59psi of fuel pressure.
Yes pressure dependent and dependent on fuel pressure regulator as well.
MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Fuel pressure is therefore like 43-44psi so they are likely to get to 440cc when new.
Fuel pressure was 40 to 41psi with Rev1 or Rev2 fuel pressure regulator..I'm sure I've mentioned that earlier.I'm not rule out that completely. However a Likely..is just a estimated guess or wishful thinking. The only way to find out is to buy a brand new set of 23209-79015 injectors and test them.[/quote]

MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Unless you have a timer wired in and I would still run it for 1 minute or your not going to get accurate results
Again..I've mentioned that earlier! Doing the test..and 3 x 15 seconds and one for 1 minute(60 seconds) :D

MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 That measurement container is not exactly accurate is it, great for measuring flour for a cake tho.
I'm sure we've been through this before..and not just me. NOTHING is accurate in your world..Not the dyno,not the boost gauge or pressure gauge..not any container with with markings! But HEY you should buy AFR gauge they bloody accurate! :laughing
MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Going to be close enough not to matter. Hardly a Lab setup there so I wouldn't go as far as saying you have proven Toyota wrong.
What..Lab setup? Don't be ridiculous! If you can do any better that would be great and helpful. I don't prove that Toyota wrong..Toyota never said is 440cc injectors.do they? All you going to get is 23209-79015 but you probably can try to contact them directly and find out.
MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Pressure gauges are notoriously inaccurate, you need something like the Fluke process meter to do it properly, in fact you need a dedicated setup to get anything close to accurate. Ran through all my analogue gauges when I had access to one they can be out by 3psi no problem
I'm sure we've been through this before..and not just me. NOTHING is accurate in your world..Not the dyno,not the boost gauge or pressure gauge..not any container with with markings! But HEY you should buy AFR gauge they bloody accurate! :laughing
MR2DI4 wrote: 12/04/21 5:33 Looks like fun tho and the results at least verify the injector is working.
I wouldn't say it was a Fun..smells of petrol,half day wasted..headache later on. I didn't complain about injectors as all of 12 I've been using in different engines at certain point. I'm sure you'll noticed when injector not working on the car..whatever is petrol or diesel...the purpose of this test was to find out what CC rating of Rev1 Rev2 and Rev3 injectors.
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Re: 3sgte Rev1 Rev2 And Rev3 Injectors CC Rating

Post by Voivod »

SonicSW20 wrote: 12/04/21 14:24 You do you mate.
No problemo :th: By the way..did you find any info regarding Rev1 Rev2 &Rev3 waste gate differences and all controls?

If you stuck giz a shout! :D
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