Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

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Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by Voivod »

I've been using NGK spark plugs mostly back in the days and they never lasted that long as they should..also had many problems at low mileage usage. Jumped to Denso and they are far better..lasted longer at least. So I've give a try to NGK again and is disappointing results again.

Also when you compare heat range NGK 7 or Denso 22 they are miles apart visually! :confused1:

p.s You experience and feedback will be appreciated.

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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by MR2DI4 »

Are we talking Platinum, Iridium or plain copper ?

I have seen up to 120,000Km out of set of platinum in a V6 where the back 3 required the whole intake to be removed to get to them.

Subaru plugs are a total nightmare to change (took me over 3 hours in a 6 cylinder) so its Platinum only and you can forget them for 100,000km which is the life of the car as far as many are concerned. Certainly the change at 100,000 is the last they are probably going to need.

Interesting bit of TV the other night where the guy from the "Dog & Lemon" guide started that European cars were a fashion statement and designed to last 60,000km and in another sentence he said that if everyone owned a Toyota he would be out of a job.

I would never use copper plugs, especially in a turbo. As the boost pressure rises you need the very fine electrode to get decent ignition. The peak Voltage goes through the roof and it really test the old fashioned HT leads.
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by Voivod »

MR2DI4 wrote: 11/06/21 6:45 Are we talking Platinum, Iridium or plain copper ?

I have seen up to 120,000Km out of set of platinum in a V6 where the back 3 required the whole intake to be removed to get to them.
It doesn't really matter Platinum, Iridium or plain copper. Obviously copper will not last longer then Platinum or Iridium.

What I'm saying i s that in my case NGK never lasted as they should compare to Denso spark plugs...whatever is Platinum, Iridium or plain copper.

MR2DI4 wrote: 11/06/21 6:45 Subaru plugs are a total nightmare to change (took me over 3 hours in a 6 cylinder) so its Platinum only and you can forget them for 100,000km which is the life of the car as far as many are concerned. Certainly the change at 100,000 is the last they are probably going to need.
That's pretty much on every V6 you'll need to take off manifold plenum. Wait till you need to change a diesel injectors on one of them. :laughing
MR2DI4 wrote: 11/06/21 6:45 Interesting bit of TV the other night where the guy from the "Dog & Lemon" guide started that European cars were a fashion statement and designed to last 60,000km and in another sentence he said that if everyone owned a Toyota he would be out of a job.
Well things have changed..from 2000 onwards Toyota and Honda went down in reliability wise..they are not as what used to be.
MR2DI4 wrote: 11/06/21 6:45 I would never use copper plugs, especially in a turbo. As the boost pressure rises you need the very fine electrode to get decent ignition. The peak Voltage goes through the roof and it really test the old fashioned HT leads.
I've used copper myself ages ago not on MR2 but other cars..they OK just doesn't last as long as Platinum or Iridium. I've been using mostly Iridium for last 5 years or so.
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by TonyleFrog »

Voivod wrote: 11/06/21 0:37 Also when you compare heat range NGK 7 or Denso 22 they are miles apart visually! :confused1:
Do you judge a book by its cover? :blink:
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by Voivod »

TonyleFrog wrote: 11/06/21 15:04
Voivod wrote: 11/06/21 0:37 Also when you compare heat range NGK 7 or Denso 22 they are miles apart visually! :confused1:
Do you judge a book by its cover? :blink:
Not always..sometimes open it and go through the pages. :D If you look at NGK heat range 7 spark plug is protruding more then Denso ik22 which if you converted its the same heat range. Also colder spark plug usually protrude less.So what your thoughts?
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by TonyleFrog »

The NGK in your pic appears to be a BKR7EVX which is a platinum tip plug
https://www.ngk.com/ngk-spark-plug-numbering-systems
It is now discontinued although retail suppliers may well have stocks left
https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/assets/ ... grades.pdf

The Denso IK22 is iridium. The direct equivalent NGK plug is BKR7EIX.

The angle at which your pic was taken makes it difficult to make any 'protruding' comparison.
In any case, as Denso themselves state:
"Plug specifications (design, materials, etc.) varies according to manufacturer."
https://www.denso.com/cgi-bin/global/pl ... gi?m=0&p=0
The heat range equivalence table is what matters not visual appearance.
https://www.densoautoparts.com/faq-how- ... my-vehicle

Make of this what you will.
https://carfromjapan.com/article/car-ma ... is-better/

Little to choose between them on price. I've used both BKR7EIX and IK22 in T2.
Depending on the best deal available at the time. Never had an issue with either brand.
Personally I wouldn't use platinum tip plugs in a modded turbo running higher than stock boost. YMMV.
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by MR2DI4 »

What do you mean by protruding, the important thing is the total length of the insulator and even then some plugs use more or less copper internally to conduct away the heat. The heat range is determined by the temperature the white insulator runs at. Shorter the insulator the colder the plug.

People used to run really cold plugs in the KT100 kart engine, it only occurred to me years latter the real reason and that was to increase the compression ratio. If you look at a #11 the insulator basically goes straight across to the threads.
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by Voivod »

MR2DI4 wrote: 11/06/21 23:43 What do you mean by protruding, the important thing is the total length of the insulator and even then some plugs use more or less copper internally to conduct away the heat. The heat range is determined by the temperature the white insulator runs at. Shorter the insulator the colder the plug.

People used to run really cold plugs in the KT100 kart engine, it only occurred to me years latter the real reason and that was to increase the compression ratio. If you look at a #11 the insulator basically goes straight across to the threads.
Yes the length of insulator with the tip and DENSO IK22 is shorter then NGK BKR7EVX
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Re: Spark Plugs NGK vs Denso

Post by Voivod »

TonyleFrog wrote: 11/06/21 20:46 The NGK in your pic appears to be a BKR7EVX which is a platinum tip plug
https://www.ngk.com/ngk-spark-plug-numbering-systems
It is now discontinued although retail suppliers may well have stocks left
https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/assets/ ... grades.pdf
Yes they are BKR7EVX I've got them very cheap like £20 for two sets,also they came in Unipart packaging boxes and 100% old stock.

TonyleFrog wrote: 11/06/21 20:46 The Denso IK22 is iridium. The direct equivalent NGK plug is BKR7EvX.

The angle at which your pic was taken makes it difficult to make any 'protruding' comparison.
In any case, as Denso themselves state:
"Plug specifications (design, materials, etc.) varies according to manufacturer."
https://www.denso.com/cgi-bin/global/pl ... gi?m=0&p=0
The heat range equivalence table is what matters not visual appearance.
https://www.densoautoparts.com/faq-how- ... my-vehicle
Yeah I know that every spark plug manufactures using different numbering system regarding heat range.However what's the standards then for measurement? I've attached another photo,again not the best.From the left ZFR5F PFR6B BKR7EIX Denso IK22
TonyleFrog wrote: 11/06/21 20:46 Make of this what you will.
https://carfromjapan.com/article/car-ma ... is-better/
It would be extremely hard :D

TonyleFrog wrote: 11/06/21 20:46 Little to choose between them on price. I've used both BKR7EIX and IK22 in T2.
Depending on the best deal available at the time. Never had an issue with either brand.
Personally I wouldn't use platinum tip plugs in a modded turbo running higher than stock boost. YMMV.
I've paid for IK22 £26.58 set of 4 and NGK BKR7EVX £14.99 for a 4 plugs and that's the only reason I've bought them :laughing

Thanks for the links :th:
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