Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

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BALDYMONSTER
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Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by BALDYMONSTER » 23/02/18 18:35

With supporting mods, eg: intercooler, air filter, downpipe and exhaust blah blah?


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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by TonyleFrog » 23/02/18 21:01

What make of kit are you talking about for each of those items? Some are more equal than others...

With the stock CT20b and ECU I reckon you're looking at no more than 20bhp extra (so 265).
You shouldn''t have any reliability issues provided all the other existing components are healthy.
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by MR2DI4 » 23/02/18 21:32

With those mods listed you hardly get any extra power. The extra power comes from increasing the boost. You need to fit a decent AFR gauge and you can then only increase the boost to correct the stock rich condition.Stock they are running 10:1 under boost and you can take it into the 12:1. Getting out of the rich zone also makes more power.

The Rev 2 allows you to go to 15-17psi with the fuel pressure at the maximum recommended range by Toyota in the manual.

I picked up 25kW with what is essentially a CT20b (modified CT26 with a CT20b compressor), bigger fan and shroud on the stock IC, stock exhaust and electronically boosting the fuel pressure to 32psi at idle with the vac line connected and the stock ECU and 17psi.

The engine itself will handle much more in stock form if its in great condition, they run out of gains because of the size of the stock fuel injectors.

The sky is the limit on what is achievable in terms of power, its just a question of how much money you want to throw at it and finding a workshop where they actually know what they are doing.

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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by TonyleFrog » 23/02/18 21:56

MR2DI4 wrote:
23/02/18 21:32
With those mods listed you hardly get any extra power. The extra power comes from increasing the boost.
Oh really? Have a look at Woody's verified dyno figures (stock CT20b/boost/ECU) here http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/80/164561 ... 4#p1743804
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by MR2DI4 » 24/02/18 2:12

Max you can get out of the Rev 2 is about 250Hp on a Dyno not telling you BS.

There are plenty of online calculators that give you the max Hp, you just put in the size of the injectors and a couple of other variables.

Mine came in at 225Hp but lets remember the engine had done 168,000km at the time so if you wanted the balance you would need to rebuild the head and sort the port matching out. Problem is I cannot be bothered pulling the head and all the work on it to get another 20Hp.

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

Gains from exhaust and IC are minimal, the Dyno also is a very poor simulation of road conditions, especially when they stick a high powered fan blowing air into the side vent of the IC and run it with the hood up.

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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by TonyleFrog » 24/02/18 10:14

MR2DI4 wrote:
24/02/18 2:12
Max you can get out of the Rev 2 is about 250Hp on a Dyno not telling you BS.
Given that the thread is about a stock Rev 3 engine, why quote a Rev 2 figure? How is that relevant?

I might have guessed you would come up with the Dyno BS comment. If the pre and post mod figures for the same car are measured on the same rollers, the actual and percentage gains can be proven. I think it is fair to say that's what the OP is interested in.

Btw, if you know some other way of showing actual measurements, rather than ones from a formula, I'm sure we would all like to know about it.
MR2DI4 wrote:
24/02/18 2:12
There are plenty of online calculators that give you the max Hp, you just put in the size of the injectors and a couple of other variables.

Mine came in at 225Hp but lets remember the engine had done 168,000km at the time so if you wanted the balance you would need to rebuild the head and sort the port matching out. Problem is I cannot be bothered pulling the head and all the work on it to get another 20Hp.

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

Gains from exhaust and IC are minimal, the Dyno also is a very poor simulation of road conditions, especially when they stick a high powered fan blowing air into the side vent of the IC and run it with the hood up.
Well for starters there is a 100cc difference between Rev 2 and Rev 3 injectors. On that basis alone the formula will give a different result. It seems to me that you're comparing apples and pears.

I gave you a real world example of a Rev 3 to counter your original point re boost. I'm also well aware that a dyno is not representative of road conditions. So what? it's the before and after empirical figures obtained by actual measurement that are relevant. Which I believe is what the OP is interested in. We also don't know whether his 'blah blah' means other things he hasn't listed.
If so we need that detail, otherwise it's like asking 'how long is a piece of string?'
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by vinp182 » 24/02/18 11:42

The string is just under 8” Tony :D
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by Gazza_DJ » 24/02/18 14:11

If you add a boost controller to that list, realistically you're looking at ~230-240bhp at the wheels. Any increase in boost comes with an increased risk of blowing a ringland on a stock engine, but most consider the 16-17psi needed to get there on a Gen3 with supporting bolt on bits 'safe' on stock internals. You'll want to be monitoring AFR's if you're going anywhere near 17PSI though really.
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by jimi » 24/02/18 20:17

vinp182 wrote:
24/02/18 11:42
The string is just under 8” Tony :D
is that your welly string ?
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by MR2DI4 » 24/02/18 20:34

The Rev 2 has 440cc injectors the Rev 3 onwards has 550CC injectors but of course the OP should know that already.

The bonus is that there is even more information on the net now than in 2008 when I completed the mods. Really it was a learning curve and I did not complete the mods in the right order and was pretty lucky not to blow the engine, especially as I did a track day in it in Taupo and absolutely thrashed it to the limits.

Ultimately the "Near Stock" MR2 is limited by the size of the injectors, everything else can be slightly tweaked as its over spec for the stock power. The CT26 is a dog in stock form but the CT20b can do 17-19psi no problem in stock form so the Gen 3 is far easier to modify with a few bolt on bits.

As it stands the Gen 2 can be brought up to the performance of a stock standard Gen 3 with a bit of effort.

The mistake I made really if there was one was not getting an AFR guage in right at the beginning. You cannot simply go blindly upping the boost as there is no "Safe Figure" if you don't know your fuel pressure. Most of the aftermarket downpipes already have a bung welded into them ready for a wideband O2 sensor. The list of mods on mine was pretty long but its just common sense stuff looking back on it.

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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by jimGTS » 25/02/18 9:36

Good fuel
Good fuel pressure
AFR gauge
Good boost controller
Intercooler or chargecooler
No boost or exhaust leaks

No reason can’t run a 280-300 reliably.

Mines been over the 300-305 mark the last 4years. 2 dynos proven. I suspect before I removed my 20b it was in the 310-320 range after further tweaking, hence my 1/4 mile times.

I’ve run a TD06 the last year, suspect in the 320-330+range, but gone to a chargecooler and some octane booster for extra safety.

My car uses no oil, so I suspect this is the reason for the happy figures and power as most/all of the combustion power is being utilised and isn’t being lost through warn piston rings.

So on that front find a good engine!
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by BALDYMONSTER » 25/02/18 13:18

jimGTS wrote:
25/02/18 9:36
Good fuel
Good fuel pressure
AFR gauge
Good boost controller
Intercooler or chargecooler
No boost or exhaust leaks

No reason can’t run a 280-300 reliably.

Mines been over the 300-305 mark the last 4years. 2 dynos proven. I suspect before I removed my 20b it was in the 310-320 range after further tweaking, hence my 1/4 mile times.

I’ve run a TD06 the last year, suspect in the 320-330+range, but gone to a chargecooler and some octane booster for extra safety.

My car uses no oil, so I suspect this is the reason for the happy figures and power as most/all of the combustion power is being utilised and isn’t being lost through warn piston rings.

So on that front find a good engine!
That's basically the set up I am going for on stock internals like yours.

I was hoping for around 300 safe and reliable bhp.
Well those are my principles, and if you don't like them... I have others.

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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by BALDYMONSTER » 30/03/18 21:10

Supporting mods:

New leads, dizzy, cap and plugs.
All new fluids, everything.
Berk downpipe and full system
Blitz EBC
Apexi air filter
Larger IC by TOYOSPORTS.
Every single gasket face cleaned up and replaced with brand new ones.
Hope this helps.

An yes i know that the new plugs, leads, filters and fluids count for very little just thought i'd state.
Last edited by BALDYMONSTER on 17/05/18 18:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maximum RELIABLE bhp on a stock Rev3 turbo engine?

Post by TonyleFrog » 30/03/18 22:27

Chris, this may give you a benchmark.
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=117546
Proven dyno print out for the power figure.
On a stock CT20b turbo.

Coming up to 9 years in my ownership.
The changes to the engine spec over that time are;

The Rogue downpipe split around 6 years ago.
Replaced by a ceramic coated Berk. No issues since.

Didn't like the Magnecor leads (poor design)
Replaced them (and dizzy cap) with OEM.

One of the engine bay fans died in 2016.
Replaced both with genuine Spal ones.

Forged pistons 3 years ago.

I haven't had the car on a dyno since March 2014.
Was down on power that day due to a cooling issue.
Didn't get a full power pull as Charlie didn't want to risk my engine.
http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/47/158674 ... &start=126

I'm confident that it would be back over the 300 mark next time.
Not really concerned with chasing bhp numbers tbh.
Am far more interested in the torque figure/curve.
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