Beams in IS300

[timeattackis300]

Hey everybody, I might not be an mr2 owner but i have fallen into a category of using the 3sge beams engine into an is300. Im in America, so these swaps are not common so i have come here to learn more about an engine most know nothing about here in the states. I know the japanese altezza comes with a blacktop beams, and the redtop is used in the mr2. So im assuming the blacktop will be best to swap. So here are a number of questions for the experts. How strong is the BEAMS crank? I've read of a 5SFE crank being used, is it worth losing the revs for the added torque? can valvesprings ( suck as crower, bc, ferrea) from the 3sgte be used in our heads? how well does the lubrication system work? What size throttle body is best for the beams with boost? How much power can the 6-spd hold and is it safe to road race/time attack with a lower power level? The main plan is a time attack/ road race car. I have the transmission set up coming off a friends 3sgte converted corrolla, its a g-force 5-speed. Heres my basic plan, feel free to give any opinions. Adaptronic 440 EMS tuned for flex fuel (e-85, cheap here in states and ability to make more power). 75mm throttle body with custom intake manifold (possibly itb's with plenum), reground cams similar to 272's still using vvti, 5SFE crank with custom arias pistons with valve reliefs, eagle connecting rods and toda valve springs (unless 3sgte valvesrings cam be used). Boost wil come from divided manifold with a gtx3076 turbo. Throttle response and broad power band is what im focused on. even with a 4-cylinder swappped in the is300 will still tip the scles at around 3000LBS or more. this will be a street class car so im limited on what i can do chassis wise(weight reduction)

[scoobykarl]

Oh protok!!!!!!

[Protok]

Oh protok!!!!!!

I'm here

Hey everybody, I might not be an mr2 owner but i have fallen into a category of using the 3sge beams engine into an is300. Im in America, so these swaps are not common so i have come here to learn more about an engine most know nothing about here in the states.

Trust me, it's not a common engine anywhere.
I have spent years gathering the knowledge that I have.

I know the japanese altezza comes with a blacktop beams, and the redtop is used in the mr2.
So im assuming the blacktop will be best to swap.

Manual Blacktop should be your choice.
There are a few extra additions that aren't on the Redtop and the Automatic Blacktop.

How strong is the BEAMS crank?

Very strong, it's the same one as the 3SGTE one.

I've read of a 5SFE crank being used, is it worth losing the revs for the added torque?

Depends how you drive. I would never give up revs, these engines seem to thrive on the revs and the compression/vvti helps with the torque but there are those who have done it and love that extra response

can valvesprings ( suck as crower, bc, ferrea) from the 3sgte be used in our heads?

No, pretty much everything (with the exception of the connecting rods) is superior in the Beams compared to the earlier 3S engines. Valves are bigger and lighter, springs are better.
Even the fuel system is miles better, little known fact that the beams fuel rail is 11mm internally; that's bigger than the aftermarket ones for the 3SGTE.

If you did want to run new ones, Toda are the recommended ones or TRD but getting your hands on TRD parts is near impossible due to them being discontinued.

how well does the lubrication system work?

Never heard of any problems with it so I assume very well.
An oil cooler is recommended when fitting a turbo but not completely neccessary.

What size throttle body is best for the beams with boost?

Standard one is perfectly fine to around 450bhp if I recall correctly.

How much power can the 6-spd hold and is it safe to road race/time attack with a lower power level?

With an uprated clutch and flywheel, I've seen them fine at 400+bhp

The main plan is a time attack/ road race car. I have the transmission set up coming off a friends 3sgte converted corrolla, its a g-force 5-speed.

Can't say I've had any experience with that gearbox so cannot advise.

Adaptronic 440 EMS tuned for flex fuel (e-85, cheap here in states and ability to make more power).

No point asking on a forum about the ECU.
Pick your tuner first and get the ECU that they are most comfortable with and follow their advice.

75mm throttle body with custom intake manifold (possibly itb's with plenum)

ITBs in plenum is the best for throttle response but the stock throttle body is more than good enough to handle the power.
Remember that a throttle body that is too big will actually cause lag.

reground cams similar to 272's still using vvti

If you find somewhere that does these then please drop me a PM. Finding people to do it here is near impossible. Also watch how much of the VVTi you do retain, most cams will cancel out most of it.
And try keeping the exhaust always slightly less than the intake (ex: 270 on exhaust for 272 on intake)

5SFE crank with custom arias pistons with valve reliefs

Again I am unsure on the 5SFE crank.
I believe that JE do pistons off the shelf for these engines specifically as do Toda.
Watch that you don't try use a 3SGTE piston, a standard gen3 one will have the compression at 11.2:1.
I am personally aiming that my compression never goes below 10.5:1. With the right tuning and parts, the compression doesn't matter. It just adds better driveability and helps MPG (cause we all care so much )

eagle connecting rods and toda valve springs

Good choice for both. Both of them happen to be on my shopping list.

Boost will come from divided manifold with a gtx3076 turbo

Don't see anything wrong with the choice of turbo but why a divided manifold?
The A/R of the turbo is already high enough so the increase is going to be negligent is it not?

Throttle response and broad power band is what im focused on. even with a 4-cylinder swappped in the is300 will still tip the scles at around 3000LBS or more. this will be a street class car so im limited on what i can do chassis wise(weight reduction)

Last I remember the RS200 weighs 1340kg but it has 50/50 weight distribution.
Strut braces help a lot and bigger sway bars will make it handle on rails. Only other thing is to maybe go for bigger wheels and coilovers.

May I ask the reason why you have overlooked the 2JZGTE?
It has a hell of a lot more grunt than the 3S can ever have but you do give up on the handling.

Finally I leave you with a pic to whet your appetite

WRC Corolla I260
Basically a turbocharged beams with anti-lag
Note that it has no exhaust VVTi but retained the Intake VVTi.

[timeattackis300]

Thanks so much for the replies. Red your info was just about the best response i have ever recieved, on any forum. So to answer a few questions you asked im gonna give my opinions. I overlooked the 2jzgte because of the weight primarily. They are great (had one in my sc300) and can be built well, but getting rid of the weight on the front of a car to come close to the beams swapped car is expensive and not logical. Other smaller reasons are aerodynamics. we are going to v-mount the radiator/intercooler and have ducting pushing all incoming air out of the hood and under the car. I chose the twin scroll 3076 because i want insane throttle response (hence why we may run itbs with with turbo as well) and still capable of 550WHP. I have found people to do regrinds so i will be sending you a PM. The company that will be handling my regrinds has experience with vvt-i. The tracks are short here in the usa, so throttle response for coming out of corners and not needing insane top speeds. This is another reason we are choosing a beams swappped car, the powerband is a little easier to control than a 2jzgte. even with modified factory turbos, the band seemed like it couldve been less snappy. boost would hit and wham! trying to correct the cars steering came into play. the goal is to cut weight and increase handling with a minimal power band. kind of takin the concept from the autobacs S2000 that had only 300HP but can run tsukuba in under a minute.

[sinjen]

Just to throw it in there as you're talking about throttle response, turbos, Beams etc have you looked at the Gen 4 3sgte, awesome throttle response, zero lag turbo (or as close to it), 270bhp before you make it breathe better. Very similar to the Beams, just better (baiting ) lol

[timeattackis300]

Just to throw it in there as you're talking about throttle response, turbos, Beams etc have you looked at the Gen 4 3sgte, awesome throttle response, zero lag turbo (or as close to it), 270bhp before you make it breathe better. Very similar to the Beams, just better (baiting ) lol

I have considered, but for the cost of the engine,finding a 2s bellhousing, clutch, flywheel and a complete w-series box would be almost triple the cost of a black top beams. I can get a 6-spd beams here in the states for about $1500 shipped to my doorstep. I really appreciate your opinion, i almost have considered doing this swap. However for the price to convert i could build a turbo kit with a t25 framed turbo to puish out over 300HP and have similar powerband compared to a gen 4 3sgte. Have you ever read about the Blitz Japan Altezza? Only mods are a K27 turbo kit, a computer re-map and exhaust. it was good for 268mph on a top speed run

[Protok]

Thanks so much for the replies. Red your info was just about the best response i have ever recieved, on any forum.

No problem, I am honoured to have helped so much. Certainly put a smile on my face this morning

Very similar to the Beams, just better (baiting ) lol

Now, now; you know better than to bait me because I'll just win
Besides may I remind you who pointed you in the direction of the Gen4 3SGTE

Have you ever read about the Blitz Japan Altezza? Only mods are a K27 turbo kit, a computer re-map and exhaust. it was good for 268mph on a top speed run

I've seen it before, unbelieveable to get that from an Altezza.
The engines are extremely easy to tune really and power from them can be had rather easily if you know what you are doing.

BTW my engine is a Beams with ITBs and a TDO4 turbocharger.
Currently in the process of upgrading to a custom Garrett Turbo (GT28/GT-SS Hybrid) which will change a few characteristics and make it a bit more future proof.

[timeattackis300]

Hey Protok, do you have any dynos/videos of your car running itbs and a turbo? I would love to see what I would be looking at as far as spool up times as well as a power band.

[Protok]

Hey Protok, do you have any dynos/videos of your car running itbs and a turbo? I would love to see what I would be looking at as far as spool up times as well as a power band.

I've had dyno sheets but no videos. I've got no idea where the hell they are though, I showed them to a few people last year and haven't seen them since.

I can tell you that the turbo was spooling stupidly early, as early as 1700rpm but the boost didn't hold up above 6700rpm.

[sinjen]

Very similar to the Beams, just better (baiting ) lol

Now, now; you know better than to bait me because I'll just win
Besides may I remind you who pointed you in the direction of the Gen4 3SGTE

Lol, missed this. You just get your car going, then we'll see

[timeattackis300]

That's a crazy throttle response protok! can I ask you what you are doing for engine management on this engine? From what I've understood the aussies tend to use an Adaptronic 440E ECU because it can control dual VVT-I and also be set-up to run with ITB's. The problem I see there is the lack of a knock sensor. I don't have the cash for a motec m400, but not a lot of ecu's can control dual vvt-i. I would rather keep the vvt-i and run a single throttle body if it came down to it. I know an AEM box can be set-up to use one side for vvt-i, but I want to keep the dual to maximize throttle response.